Good idea

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Balthazar
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Good idea

Post by Balthazar » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:31 pm

Well, it would be nice to add map generator to TA3D, or for the begining - create one tiles-like map, quite simple with single or few textured tiles like "snow and water" with total mapsize of 100-200 kb, so it will be fast to run and test TA3D without all this huge map files.

And TA3D could be released with this map for testing purposes :)

Since pathfinding could behave quite independent on the different kinds of maps, so generation of map with a few tiles doesn`t seems to me very hard task. BUT this tiles could have more than 256 colors.

Any suggetions? :P

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zuzuf
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Post by zuzuf » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:56 pm

maps don't take lots of time to load, what takes time to load is mainly units, 3D models and map features (currently it loads everything).

making a random map generator isn't so hard, what is hard is making a map generator that generates natural looking maps :) , there is also a question here:
do we use OTA map format or do we use a new one (maybe TASpring map format if compatible with TA3D engine) because it would be great if we could save a random map and then play it later or make some changes to improve it. We could also improve OTA map format or even create our own map format, for example we could put a huge texture inside (24bits compressed using jpeg) without any lighting effect and then process lighting at loading time (hills shadows, etc...), and even add script to animate things on the map (growing forests, rain, fog, modify water simulation*,...).

But since adding support for new map format is a huge piece of work, I suggest we put this in the TODO list for later, at least when we'll have networking support working :)

*I am dreaming of animated waterfalls in TA3D and maps with real water simulation => various water levels at the same time, the ability to flood areas, terrain deformation, etc ... but this requires a new map format that can support dynamic geometry and a less fragmented texturing method.
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Post by Balthazar » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:15 pm

Yeahhh, ability to flood territories and animated waterfalls have so much awesomeness in it that I can`t even discribe.

Yeah, it could be really something. Huge armies gets surronded by water during the massive fight and have to retreat, waiting when level of the sea will fall down, revealing the dry path towards enemy base... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

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zuzuf
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Post by zuzuf » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:47 am

I've made a small water simulation that uses an height map in order to take the map properties into account, it looks very realistic (physics simulations only, rendering is very basic). The problem is that it's very CPU intensive, and it'll never run on the CPU within TA3D, but a GPU should run it fast enough without slowing down the game ... but it restricts water simulation to GeForce 6 class and newer gfx cards. With this code we would get real waves, real physics, the ability to flood areas, rain could increase water level, etc ...

This simulation has the following properties:
_water conservation it won't disappear or be created unless you add/remove water yourself
_uses height map when computing physics, so hills are obstacles to water
_you can have lakes, ocean, waterfalls, rivers, ...
_computation cost is constant since it's not particle based
_manipulated data : water level for each point of the map (and transfer speed from one to another)

I don't know if this can be synchronized since it changes really fast and you cannot sync only a part of the data otherwise it'll create unwanted waves.

An other good news : it can be implemented without a new map format and replace normal water system, but first it must be implemented to run on GPU instead of CPU otherwise it'll be slow no matter on what computer you run it.
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Balthazar
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Post by Balthazar » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:19 pm

Looks like TA3D has grown out from its small panties :) Less from TA - more from Spring, Supcom or whatever :)

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Post by zuzuf » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:27 pm

TA compatibility is still our goal, but we can also add optional features and improvements.

TA3D has never looked more like TA than today, and water physics wouldn't be weird in TA. I am sure the only reason why it's not implemented in TA is because there was not enough processing power available when TA was developed. But I don't see why supreme commander doesn't have such a feature ...
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Post by Balthazar » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:58 pm

That`s because of lack of good ideas :)

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